Enjoyed a trip to DC last weekend (Friday-Saturday) to visit my daughters and take our Korean exchange student to see the highlights on the mall [we went to the Jefferson, Lincoln and Korean War memorials, saw the Capital building, visited the US Botanic Garden Conservatory, the Air and Space Museum, the National Art Gallery, the Museum of American History, went to the top of the Washington Monument, and the National Archive (where we saw the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights)]. Wow!
Now, back to my rejoinders to Dr. Elijah's Hixson's comments posted to my blog on WM 149.
For part one of my rejoinder look here.
Here is the continuation of the rejoinder (EH's comments in blue and my responses in black):
(2/~3) You write: “This ms. only has a short entry. EH
concludes, ‘Still, the King James Version already existed by the time this
manuscript rolled around.’ One wonders about the mention here of the KJV, in
particular. The implication, of course, is that defense of the TR is simply a
variety of KJV-Onlyism.” This was not at all my implication though. My
implication is that the manuscript it so late that it doesn’t support the
presence of the Comma in editions of the TR. 1611 is such a well-known date
that it’s a good way to represent how late this manuscript is.
You write: “Because this likely does not fit with EH’s
assumption that defense of the TR can only be perceived as a variety of KJV-O.”
This is not my assumption at all. I would grant that it’s one possibility of
four (explained at the end).
JTR: Interesting. So, does this mean that you recognize
the Confessional Text preference for the TR as not being a variety of KJVO? So,
this means that you also disagree with those like Mark Ward who have recently suggested
that “Confessional Bibliology” is really just “upscale KJVO”?
Are you also saying that your specific
mention here of ms. 2473’s suggested date of c. 1634 as being after the KJV
(1611) is not related to any attempt to make a connection between the TR preference and KJVO? OK. Sounds good. If this is the case, might I offer a friendly suggestion:
Given that many modern text advocates (like Mark Ward) do, in fact, argue that any
defense of the TR is really just some variety of KJVO, you might want to be sensitive
to making singular references to the KJV (and ignoring other Protestant
translations based on the TR in English and other languages) if you write something
again that specifically addresses the TR position.
A few more questions on ms. 2473 since
your comments here were so brief: On what basis is ms. 2473 dated to c. 1634?
Does this date come from Wachtel? On what basis did the person assigning this
date make this assessment?
You write: “One wonders what EH means by “grand claims.”” I’m
happy to elaborate. The TR position is essentially a “grand unified theory of
textual criticism.” That is the only way it can be legitimate for TR advocates
to claim that they can interpret the evidence correctly (or even that they can
do it more correctly than someone like me). By ‘grand unified theory’, I mean
that every single page of every single manuscript is an outworking of “kept
pure in all ages” throughout history. This includes not only every page of
Vaticanus and Bezae but also minuscules 177, 1739, 35, 1582, every Latin
manuscript that supports “In Isaiah the Prophet” at Mark 1:2, and the 99 (or
more?) Armenian manuscripts that lack Mark 16:9–20 and the ~1600 Greek
manuscripts that do have it. Every single one of the Byzantine Greek minuscules
that lacks the Comma and every single one of the ones that have it fall under
the purview of ‘kept pure in all ages’ and as a result, a TR advocate should be
able to make a better case for how to interpret the evidence than I have given.
JTR: I
found this paragraph confusing. I had asked what you meant by your reference to
the “grand claims” of TR advocates, since you cited no authors or works directly.
I even suggested what I thought you might have meant by this: “Is it simply the
claim that the TR has historically been and should continue to be looked to as
the authoritative and authentic text of Protestant Scriptures?”
Your elaboration
here, however, seems to be something completely different. You describe the TR
position as a “grand unified theory of textual criticism” that must take into
consideration “every single page of every single manuscript” in order to satisfy
the “kept pure in all ages” view of preservation (presumably as articulated in
WCF/SD/2LBCF 1:8).
Again, this seems to
be a departure along a completely different track. When you made reference in your
original article to “the grand claims” of TR advocates, I was assuming you were
attempting to address “grand claims” actually made by those who hold to some form
of TR advocacy, and especially to those of us who do so on a confessional
basis, since this was stated as a special interest and focus in your article. The
paragraph in your original article in which you mention these “grand claims” begins,
in fact, as follows (bold added): “Maybe
I have been reading too much from textus receptus advocates, but it struck
me that some of the arguments I hear
from them actually works against the textus receptus position once you take
the time to step away from the grand
claims and look at how the specifics about manuscripts fit with those grand claims.”
Your “grand unified
theory” noted above, however, is not a “grand claim” made by any TR advocate I
have read. It certainly does not reflect my view. Instead, you seem to have
shifted the focus of the term “grand claims” from what TR advocates actually
hold (as seemed to be the intent in your original article) to what you think
they should hold (what you address in these comments). Do you see why I find
this so confusing? I’m probably not the only one.
Again, this “grand unified
theory” is not one held by any TR advocate of whom I am aware but seems to be
your own theory (your own “grand claim”, as it were). Your view, if I understand
you correctly, is that any legitimate view of the text of Scripture must take
into consideration the legitimacy of every extant ms. (Greek and versional) to
the NT (“every single page of every single manuscript”).
With all due respect,
I must tell you that I completely disagree with your “grand unified theory of
textual criticism.” I believe, for example, that the c. 900 Armenian mss. that
omit the traditional ending of Mark (along with Sinaiticus and Vaticanus at this
point) were in error, and their reading should be rejected.
Your “grand unified
theory”, in fact, seems to describe the classic modern critical text view of
reconstruction, but not the confessional view of preservation. This was not the
view of providential preservation held by the men who framed the WCF/SD/2LBCF.
I know your training is not in historical theology and, as I understand it, you
are not yourself confessionally Reformed. If you have not yet done so, I’d
encourage you to read vol. 2 of Richard Muller’s PRRD, as well as Garnet Howard Milne’s Kept Pure in All Ages to understand what the Protestant orthodox
meant by “kept pure in all ages.” I think you would profit from it. If you think
I have misread you here, please feel free to clarify things for me and point me
in the direction of what I should read.
“I’m not sure about his drift in reference to lectionary
markings in Codex Bezae. Is his point that it was used in some church
tradition? But its obscure readings were, in fact, rejected as authentic,
right?” In a sense, no they weren’t, not by the church that used it. And that
church falls under the purview of ‘kept pure in all ages’, unless that phrase
means little more than special pleading. Codex Bezae is the text received by
that church.
JTR: With all due respect, I completely disagree
with your premise here. Are you really saying that just because any church or
churches made use of any reading in any manuscript in the entire history of
Christendom, then that reading should be accepted as being as legitimate and authoritative
as any other?
What you are proposing here, I am afraid,
is a radical redefinition of “kept pure in all ages” which has nothing to do
with how the framers of the Protestant confessions would have understood it
(see suggested reading above). In fact, I hardly see how this view could even be
comprehended as being broadly evangelical. It seems more in line with Bart Ehrman’s
view that we should talk about “early Christianities” (plural) rather than “early
Christianity” (singular), or Elaine Pagel’s view that the Gnostic writings should
be acknowledged with equal legitimacy in the “Christian” tradition alongside
those received by the “paleo-orthodox.”
In contrast, consider Eusebius’s
account of Serapion of Antioch in EH 6:12. When he heard that those in Rhossos
were making use of the apocryphal Gospel of Peter, he at first permitted it to
be read by them, having never read it himself, assuming it was orthodox, and that
it actually came from Peter. When he later examined the document, however, and found
that it was pseudonymous and included heretical docetic teaching, he rejected
it as non-Petrine and spurious, and warned against its acceptance. According to
the view you have articulated above, however, the Gospel of Peter should,
however, perhaps be received, since it was once used (received) by a church.
The Serapion anecdote demonstrates
that not every text was received by the orthodox in the history of the church just
because it was received and used by any particular church or churches. If this
was true of the rejection of the Gospel of Peter, surely it is also true of discernment
applied to the NT canon. This type of discernment, for example, led to
the rejection of the following: the canonicity of the so-called “Shorter Ending
of Mark”, the omission of the traditional ending of Mark, as in codices Sinaiticus
and Vaticanus, the insertion of the spear piercing the side of Jesus before he
died on the cross in codices Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, et al. at Matthew 27:49
[from John 19:34], the inclusion of Psalm 151 in the Psalter in codex
Sinaiticus, the inclusion of the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas
in the NT in codex Sinaiticus, the omission of 2 Peter, 2-3 John, Jude and
Revelation in the early Syriac NT, etc.
In short, not every reading in Bezae
or any other early ms. should be conferred legitimacy, just because it is
extant and was used at some point by some church or churches. Not all evidence
is to be treated equally. We cannot separate the matters of canon and text. We
are not dependent on empirical reconstruction but on providential preservation
of the self-authenticating Scripture.
“Does EH realize he writes this after an exercise in which he
has literally been “scrambling” through the extant CJ evidence attempting to
show the impact of RC provenance?” But this is not true. As I clarified
earlier, I merely set out to see what the manuscripts themselves said. I had no
idea what I would find. It sounds like you are projecting motives onto me that
aren’t there.
JTR: Despite the protests
here to the contrary, you clearly stated more than once in your original article
that one of your purposes was to refute those who defended the CJ on the basis
of their Protestant, confessional convictions. The particular attempt you made to
show the RC provenance of some of these witnesses to the CJ and to argue that this was an example
of inconsistency in the Protestant confessional defense of the CJ seems to be an
especially obvious example of how your implicit bias shaped the article’s “findings.”
On one hand, you protest here that you “merely set out to see what the
manuscripts themselves said”, but, on the other hand, you plainly tell us in
the original article that you did some special “scrambling” to look for RC
provenance for these mss. Why did you especially look for RC provenance for
these mss.? You wanted to buttress your preconceived argument against the
Protestant defense of the CJ.
Do you really think
that one can approach the study of the text of Scripture without any preconceived
notions or presuppositions? If so, how very modern of you. But even in the
modern period, didn’t the text critics always argue that the discipline was both an
art and a science? IMHO, your article clearly reflects a good deal of art and
not merely dispassionate, objective scientific description. I’m not necessarily
downing you for this. I gladly admit that I have a bias toward the TR as I examine
the empirical evidence. My question is simply, “Why not acknowledge that?”
In summary, three main headings of responses.
1. First, you make some incorrect assumptions. “… he assumes that TR advocates are engaged in the same sort of reconstruction methodology as modern/postmodern text critics.” “Because this likely does not fit with EH’s assumption that defense of the TR can only be perceived as a variety of KJV-O.” “EH wrongly implies that TR advocates affirm the CJ based on analysis of extant Greek mss evidence.” “Does EH realize he writes this after an exercise in which he has literally been “scrambling” through the extant CJ evidence attempting to show the impact of RC provenance?” Not only are you saying things about me and my assumptions that simply aren’t true, in some of these cases, your incorrect assumptions led you to incorrect conclusions (such as why I mentioned the KJV).
1. First, you make some incorrect assumptions. “… he assumes that TR advocates are engaged in the same sort of reconstruction methodology as modern/postmodern text critics.” “Because this likely does not fit with EH’s assumption that defense of the TR can only be perceived as a variety of KJV-O.” “EH wrongly implies that TR advocates affirm the CJ based on analysis of extant Greek mss evidence.” “Does EH realize he writes this after an exercise in which he has literally been “scrambling” through the extant CJ evidence attempting to show the impact of RC provenance?” Not only are you saying things about me and my assumptions that simply aren’t true, in some of these cases, your incorrect assumptions led you to incorrect conclusions (such as why I mentioned the KJV).
JTR: This paragraph protests
that I misunderstood and misrepresented your position in my review. I’m not convinced
of that. I guess we will have to leave it to the readers/listeners to draw
their own conclusions.
To be continued...
JTR
Thanks, Jeffrey!
ReplyDelete=============
JR
"Do you see why I find this so confusing? I’m probably not the only one."
Hand rises!
JR
"This paragraph protests that I misunderstood and misrepresented your position in my review. I’m not convinced of that. I guess we will have to leave it to the readers/listeners to draw their own conclusions."
You understood perfectly well. Elijah is trying to straddle two sides.
a) Playing innocent scholar simply looking at manuscripts.
b) Self-appointed attack man against Reformation Bible and heavenly witnesses defenders.
And Elijah continually misrepresents the Reformation Bible positions. Then he tries the "bury" technique. 2,000 words to avoid any direct response.
=============
"the c. 900 Armenian mss. that omit the traditional ending of Mark"
Metzger in 1971 said about 100.
Maybe the year and date are being mixed up?
=============
"Thou Shalt Keep Them : A Biblical Theology of the Perfect Preservation of Scripture" - Kent Brandenburg, editor
Might be another book that would help Elijah. Granted, might have some different doctrinal perspectives.
=============
May I suggest you look closely at the Sinaiticus issues. The 4th century date does not fit, and the evidence supports c. 1840. I'd be happy to share on this, text or voice. :)
=============
Very fine blog post!
Steven Avery
Dutchess County, NY